Bishop's Epistle: Glory With the Father

Glory With the Father

Written by Bishop Jerry Hayes Sr. Abbot General of the Disciples of the Way (Apostolic)

John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Of course, the Trinitarian feels that this scripture proves the pre-existence of the Son of God. We will show that too much has been attempted, in that the problem created by such a view of this passage is insurmountable, even by those who hold it. To the Trinitarian Jesus is asking the Father to glorify Him with the Father’s glory; notice: “And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self…” If there are two God-persons in view here, and if Jesus is a separate God-person from the Father, there is a very big problem. The problem lies in the simple fact that Father God will give His glory to NO other. Two passages of scripture declare this clearly:

1. Isaiah 42:8 “I am the LORD (Yahweh), that is my name, and my glory will I not give to another.”

2. Isaiah 48:8 “… and I will not give my glory unto another.”

Is Jesus praying an impossible prayer? Obviously not. Jesus is praying a correct prayer. He is praying a proper prayer that could and would be answered. If He was asking Father God, a separate being from Himself, to share His (the Father’s) glory with Him (the Son) then that would have been an exercise in futility. It would have been so, because Isaiah 42:8 and 48:11 are Bible absolutes that can never be altered. (Psalms 119:89, “forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.”) If, on the other hand, the MAN Christ Jesus was praying to the Father to be glorified into fore ordained Son-ship, and not into Deity, then the prayer has great merit.

Second, Timothy 2:15 instructs us to “rightly divide the word of truth.” In all truthfulness it is the Son which is praying, and the Son prays to be glorified with the glory that He (the Son) had with the Father before the world was created. In order to understand what this glory, which the Son enjoyed with the Father before the world was, we must “rightly divide the word of truth.”

The text before us (John 17:5) gives us two very important bits of information:

1. Where this glory was experienced,

2. When this glory was experienced.

The ‘where’ was in the Father’s presence; the ‘when’ was before the world was. We must then ask the question,” What was with Father God, before the creation of the universe? (I say “creation of the universe”, because that is what the word kosmos means – here, translated world.)

The answer to the question, “What was with Father God before the creation of the universe?” is not another person of deity; although, this is what the Trinitarian concept of John 17:5 would demand. We may be confident in this, because of the declarations of Father God Himself: He says in Deuteronomy 32:39 “See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no God with me:…” Isaiah 44:24 “…I am the LORD that maketh all things, that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself.” God the Father asks, “To whom will ye liken me and make me equal and compare me, that we may be like?” (Isaiah46:5). The Trinitarian says “We will compare thee to the Son of God, and we will make thee equal to Him.” To such people the prayer of Jesus (John 17:5) was a request to be restored to equality with the Father. No! And as thousand times No! The assumed answer to Yahweh’s question put to Isaiah is: None, LORD, is Your equal, and we cannot compare You to any.

Now that we have seen what the answer to the question, “What was with the Father before the world (kosmos) was” is not, perhaps we can ascertain what the answer IS.

This we know, The Counsel of God was with God in the beginning. John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…” The logos was with the Father before the world was. Logos is the expression of thought, as embodying a concept or idea (Vine). Hebrews 11:3 states, “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God …”

The Word (logos) was not a separate being from God the Father in the beginning, but was simply the expression of His thought, which embodied the conception or idea of Creation, and Redemption. (Therein, rests His Counsel.)

Three elements existed in the “Counsel of God,” before the world was:

1. The Atonement;

2. God’s Elect; and

3. The Kingdom.

Paul makes us aware in Ephesians 1:11 that God counsels with Himself before He performs any work. What a work creation was! But the work of creation pales in the energetic aurora from the labor of Calvary’s summit. Creation and Redemption, one is predicated upon the other. Both were in the Counsel of God before the world was.

In the Counsel of God was The Atonement – before the world was: 1 Peter 1:19:20, “But with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was fore ordained before the foundation of the world …” Again: Revelation 13:8 “…Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” And again, Hebrews 4:3 “… although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.”

In the Counsel of God was God’s Elect – before the world was: Ephesians 1:4 “…he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” Again, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 “… because God hath from the beginning chose you to salvation …” And again, Revelation 17:8 “… names … written in the book of life from the foundation of the world …”

In the Counsel of God was The Kingdom – before the world was: Matthew 25:34 “…then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.”

In the full Counsel of Cod, the Son (the humanity) was the paramount part. When Jesus prayed to be glorified with the FORMER glory that He (the Son) had with the Father before the world was, He was referencing the Atonement; God’s Elect; and the Kingdom. He was saying (this prayer He prayed the night he was betrayed): “Father, I am now ready to realize this FROMER GLORY through the suffering of the cross. I was in your Counsel before the world was; I (as a man suffering for mankind) had glory with you, there and then, now, I am ready to receive that glory.” He said, “No man takes my life from me, I lay it down.”

"Defense of Isaiah 9:6, Answering Objections to Modalism"

https://bishopjerrylhayes.blogspot.com/2017/04/defense-of-isaiah-96.html

The above article is excerpted from the author's best selling book entitled "Godhead Theology." You may own your personal copy of this classic work on the Godhead by ordering from the link provided here:

https://www.amazon.com/Godhead-Theology-Modalism-Original-Orthodoxy/dp/1516983521/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=Godhead+theology%2C+hayes&qid=1554321481&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT BY PURCHASING MY BOOKS FOR YOUR LIBRARY. -JLH

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Bishop's Epistle

Friday, December 14, 2012

Glory With the Father

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